Vanguard News Network

Army officer Craddock wants “peace-loving nations as a part of the alliance” Where does Israel fit into that scheme?

It doesn’t fit at all. Lantos should consider apologizing to all Germanic whites for slandering them the past 60-plus years with his fucking Holohoax horseshit lies. No business like Shoah business, right shylock Tommy? As for Army officer Craddock, shut the fuck up dummy and continue to fight and die in your kike wars.

Anti wrote: Now, was Weishaupt really a Jew, or have Christians and conspiracy theorists simply maintained he was? For my part, I’ve not seen one single scrap of evidence establishing a Jewish background; all I’ve seen are assertions from the predictable sources. NB: repeating an hypothesis doesn’t make it true.

Thanks for the tip. When you meet any “conspiracy theorists” let us know. Jewish collusion and behavior is not a “theory” it’s a goddamn fact. And the most evil events and organizations in history can always be traced back to Jews. It should not be surprising that a kike would have started FM as well as the Illuminati. Don’t know why you post here. No one takes you seriously. Haven’t seen any evidence that you’re not a Jew either.

Weishaupt was a ‘converso’ who discovered his true calling.

And of course, no one provided any actual evidence of Weishaupt’s alleged Jewishness. Repeating an hypothesis 37,000 times does not a fact make. I could uh, type “never again” into Google and come up with, I don’t know, a billion proofs that the Holocaust happened; doesn’t make it true, does it? Only repetitive.

Oh well. WNs aren’t logicians or scholars. Big news!

Dismissing sources because they’re “Christians” and “conspiracy theorist” doesn’t make the sources false either

Sure it does. Errors travel around in their social circles like virii. Jews believe 6,000,000 of their ranks were murdered; identity/conspiracy kooks believe in the overarching malfeisance of the Illuminati and Freemasons. Both groups are full of delusion creeps. And none of it, once again, proves Weishaupt’s jewishness. So far, all one has are allegations. Try to think legally, here. 37,000 repetitions of an allegation do not make a fact.

Jewish collusion and behavior is not a “theory” it’s a goddamn fact.

Sure. But I asked: is Weishaupt jewishness a fact? Which, of course, was avoided in favor of sputtering rhetoric.

No one takes you seriously.

Believe it or not, tuff gai, some people who read VNN aren’t ideological cheerleaders. Some of us, God forbid, expect a little more intellectual rigor from the alleged Vanguard.

I guess it’s just too farfetched that a real German might be responsible for the Order of Illuminati. JewWatch says so, it must be so. It is just too farfetched that this is an INCORRECT MEME which is believed by virtue of its currency and convenient accord with WN ideology. Dare introduce some skepticism among WN believers, you’re a “multicultural crayon salesman”, whatever in fuck that means.

Unfocus the lens a little, you might see more than just what you want to see.

Where one sheep goes, the flock follows. Linder – or his untalented ghostwriter – says Weishaupt was a Jew (no doubt because he googled “weishaupt jewish” or some such), JewWatch says he was a Jew, well he was against nations and Christianity, goddamn, sucker musta been a joo! Only Jews are responsible for internationalist ideologies. Not Germans! Every German in his heart of hearts is a staunch nationalist, even those before the creation of the unified German state. All smart ones at least! No German was ever responsible for a bad idea. Only Jews. Can’t find any proof that it was a Jew? Throw in “converso” — that always works. What about his portrait? Looks German to me; no matter, he had a big nose, i.e. was jewish!

All Europeans are angels! hosannah!

Anti Says: “And what about this ghostwriter, anyway? He/she was also responsible for the foolhardy post about Zoellick being a Jew. ”

FYI: Zoellick is called a Jew on many websites. It is to VNN’s credit that we bothered to investigate the matter. In fact, Zoellick’s true ethnic background is still unknown, to us at least. Why not try some decaf, Anti.

Some little piece of filth wrote: “[M]y grandmother has balls…”

No shit! And your humpback mother? Do tell, does the hermaphrodite fall far from the tree?

How ’bout this: Go fuck yourself. Literally.

Cheers!

It is to VNN’s credit that we bothered to investigate the matter.

But that’s just the point: there was no “investigation” — there was Ghostwriter asserting, all too hastily, that Zoellick is Jewish. Then when he realized his mistake, he put up a disclaimer; and I think the post was subsequently removed. Fact is, Zoellick is not a Jew. Is it beyond the power of German-Americans to reach governmental office?

Try to follow what I’m saying here: Ghostwriter should be more careful in his jew-finding. Is that unreasonable?

I provided over 37,500 scraps of evidence.

From Google, just like Ghostwriter — and by the way, all those hits don’t actually address the question of Weishaupt’s background, but produce every site mentioning both keywords. The point is, which you are pains to ignore, is that these hits constitute an internet rumor, started by a highly biased party, most likely JewWatch or an Evangelical. You remember what middle school was like? Some asshole starts a vicious little rumor which then gains currency because people, by nature, love to gossip. Pretty soon the subject of the rumor is just what the rumor says he/she is, whether it’s true or not. Weishaupt’s background is at this point a matter of speculation. Until one of you can furnish actual proof that Weishaupt was a Jew, instead of this puerile fucking argumentum ad populum – or better: argumentum ad googlum – you are simply making yourself look obtuse. And you’re a smart fellow, Hoos, but you fall very easily into this kind of illogical belligerence. We’re not on opposite sides of the Jew issue; but as far as intellectual rigor, you’ll take anything at face value — and that’s where we differ. But then, you’re ignoring my arguments entirely.

I think it should pass some sort of reasonable doubt by an objective 3rd party

A bunch of Google hits, which is to say what everyone got from the last guy and couldn’t be bothered to question the source or establish the truth of the claim without reference to googlable sources, to say it once more, does not make it true. It makes it a popular allegation. If I say you’re a faggot, and ten other people hear it from me and believe that, does that make you a faggot?

But you’ve dismissed roughly 37,500 “scraps of evidence,” as not being “actual evidence,”

Quotes will get you nowhere, Hoos. Misinterpreting my off-hand phrase “scrapes of evidence”, then claiming I’ve changed the terms of my challenge, is pretty desperate. I think everyone knows what I mean, that is, anyone thinking for himself, which you are clearly not.

it’s obvious you have a stake in this battle.

Yes. It pains and shames me to see people I otherwise agree with so pitiably gullible and careless.

NOT that you challenged the statement that Weiskopf was Jewish

I do challenge it. I assert that it is probably false, a claim whipped up by the creator of JewWatch or some other ridiculous toad. If he were proven to be Jewish, I should have no problem with it; but he is nowhere near being proven a Jew.

AND since you’ve provided no evidence to the contrary,

The challenge was to you believers, not for me. What you’re doing here is rhetorically flipping the terms around, so I come off as committing just the errors of which I’ve accused you believers. It’s pretty fucking disgraceful. All I ask for is someone, if they really must believe that Weishaupt was a Jew, to take the time and trouble to step outside the Google chalk-circle of self-propaganda and try to find out if Weishaupt was really a Jew or not. I realize it is practically impossible for most, including myself, and indeed that is precisely why internet rumors are so harmful to science and general knowledge: it’s a thousand times easier to just google what you want to believe, find some “scraps of evidence” – to employ your reinterpretation of my totally harmless phrase – and go right on believing what you set out to “prove” by such pathetic means.

I’ll feel free to dismiss you as some sort of Jewy instigator, if not an out and out schizophrenic retard. Sound fair?

Of course. There is always a WN tuff gai to strike the usual pose by calling some a Jew, an instigator, an agent provocateur, etc., if the articles of WN belief are questioned. Actually, I haven’t even done that directly; I’ve only asked for a bit of scholastic conscience from Mr. Ghostwriter and, if anyone can prove him right, to kindly do so.

that many of these “scraps of evidence” indicate that indeed, Weishaupt was indeed Jewish.

Yes, indeed, they do indicate — and you use this word to mask what they actually do: they claim he was a Jew. By using “indicate”, however, you navigate a safe course between “claim” (which would be a concession to me) and “prove”, which you know damn well they do not. In any case, indication is still, unfortunately for you, not proof. Try to differentiate between claims and facts. We know Trotsky was a Jew. We know Marx was a Jew. We know that Stalin was not a Jew, though very careless WNs like to pretend he was. We know that Lenin had Russian, Kalmyk, German, Swedish and Jewish heritage, but all this racial mishmash boils down to “Jew” in the simplistic minds of WNs. So be it. But what do we have for Weishaupt? Some one-line WN/christer claims that he was, and some stupid forum posters who picked it up and asserted it elsewhere. You have to learn that this is not scholarship, Hoos. Because it isn’t. It’s the internet rumor-mill. That is what you’re defending, here. And that isn’t to say the internet doesn’t provide us with a lot of solid and obvious facts. But there are always weeds – errors – to pick through. All you’re doing is defending a weed. Ghostwriter is extremely careless in his writing. Don’t be a cheerleader for someone who obv doesn’t care to do some real homework to get the facts right.

Celtic Warrior said:
OK, surely it is not beyond the ability of a serious historian to find the original parish register of Weishaupt’s birth. In the Bavarian State Archives??

I don’t know if that was irony, but if not, it would be the place to start. And I know that’s impossible for most of us. There are other ways, of course; for example, finding a university library well-stocked with German archives, of which we have plenty in the States. Or look through Jewish sources. Jews are very proud of their own. It is absolutely unlikely that they would simply pass over Weishaupt, who accord exactly with their ideological inclinations. Yet nowhere in those irrefutable 37,000 “scraps of evidence” did I see a Jewish source listing Weishaupt as one of their own. Spinoza, all the classical rabbis, even the “self-hating” Marx, etc., but not one mention of Weishaupt. Isn’t that fishy? The observable practice of the Jews to lionize their intellectuals and artists is here suspended precisely for Adam Weishaupt, yet instead of proving negatively that Weishaupt was not a Jew, it instead goes to prove that he yet was.

If no one can admit that I’ve at least made a good case here, you’re really a bunch of cretins. It is a lot like Jews themselves: you’d think they’d be jumping for joy that some French brainiacs can prove 6,000,000 Jews weren’t killed; instead they go hopping mad like fleas. Who has the stake here? me? I didn’t claim Weishaupt was a Jew; I’ve actually researched this before, well before any of you heard of him and far from the hoary halls of Google, and did not come up with anything remotely conclusive. Ghostwriter claimed he was a Jew, and neither he, nor anyone else here, can back that up without reference the fucking google rumor-mill where they found it. You have the stake, because you want to believe it is true.

So, I repeat my challenge – to prove, beyond the confines of the Google rumor mill, that Weishaupt was a Jew – and repeat my exhortation to Ghostwriter to be more careful in his allegations. Simple as that, fellas.

who’s this ghostwriter that “Anti” is raving about? The fucker sounds like he’s having a meltdown.

who’s this ghostwriter that “Anti” is raving about? The fucker sounds like he’s having a meltdown.

It’s who writes the VNN reports, you stupid asshole. Who do you think was updating while Linder was away?

Quotes will get you nowhere, Hoos. Misinterpreting my off-hand phrase “scrapes of evidence”, then claiming I’ve changed the terms of my challenge, is pretty desperate.

There’s nothing “desperate” about it, and I didn’t “misinterpret” anything. I simply quoted what you ACTUALLY wrote of what now you term a “Challenge.” I didn’t realize it was a supposed to be a “Challenge.” If your challenge was to find “scraps of evidence” then the challenge has long ago been met. Those seem to be YOUR terms.

Look, you’re coming across as either a person having a meltdown, and/or exhibiting all the signs of “Jewish behavior” that I can sometimes identify. Now, I’m not calling you a Jew, but I’m saying you’re acting – well, strange. If neither is true, then would you please calm the fuck down.

I never said he was Jewish, but rather, that there is evidence that certainly points in that direction. YOU’RE the one who claimed that YOU couldn’t find a scrap of evidence. I waded through about the first 10 pages of the search and found plenty of evidence. There was plenty that had nothing to do with WN at all.

No one has claimed that VNN is infallible either.

What do you want, someone to go dig up the corpse and do a DNA test?

I’m not going to bother to wade through the rest of what you said, which truly comes across as a “Jewy rant” to me If you’re not able to summarize and state your thoughts in some sort of readable format, I’m not going to waste my time trying to decipher it.

Look, if you’re so passionate about this particular subject, and can level so much criticism at others, why don’t you do some top notch research and then report back?

Jesus Christ, calm down already. You sound like you’re ready to have a heart attack.

The Illuminati – which didn’t begin in Bayern, by the way – is one of those things that won’t die just because some morons keep harping on it, much like Communism. WN’s obsession with Communism is a holdover from the days of Rockwell and previous; it has almost nothing to do with modernity, and glosses over aspects of the Soviet Union, at least, which are not at all hostile to the implications of the WN viewpoint. But hey, Hitler went hog on Stalin, so Stalin musta been wrong, raaaht? – Note to self: don’t employ humor when arguing with VNN readers. – What is actually central to modern political discourse (and thus to politics, as official discourse reflects the conduct of government and those behind it) rather than any Freemasons or Illuminati, are the morons who insist that such Enlightenment-era groups play a role in politics today, insofar as these morons are used by pundits to point up the alleged quackery of the “extreme right”. On another level, the claim that Weishaupt was a Jew is a propagandistic falsification of the trends of thought among the European intelligentsia of the time; it takes their fool’s gold away from them and slyly shoves it into the Jews’ hands. Of course, VNN readers aren’t historians anymore than they’re logicians or anything else; they want to believe, not to study, learn, or think.

No doubt Ghostwriter will keep that claim up. He also wants to believe Weishaupt was a Jew. The question is: will we see him endeavor to prove it? And don’t think I’m one of those pricks who, to stall an argument, will ask for evidence and statistics. A lot of knowledge is instinct and guesswork, not infrequently correct. But some people don’t have good instinct, and most don’t have respectable methods of research or even a moral compass with regard to what they believe and promote to be “true”. That’s why Duke and you guys shot your mouths off about Zoellick, who had been in office for all of a few minutes and had done absolutely nothing but make his acceptance speech, and it’s why Linder’s stand-in just decides, on worthless non-evidence, that Adam Weishaupt was a Jew because he read on Wikipedia or somewhere that Weishaupt was opposed to nation-states and so on. I don’t even want to start listing historical goyim who were opposed to some WN article of faith. Many of them – omg! – had German surnames….

Another interesting aspect to this: there was a time – or a few times, and places – when German surnames struck fear in people, not because the name might hide a Jew (and Zoellick, by the way, would be a quite atypical Jewish surname, ending in -ick and containing a double l; and given the relative consistency of Jewish name-groups), but because it was a German, and people thought that was really bad. So it’s sort of a recrudescence of that suspicion of the German name, though for a different reason. In other words, it is sheer hypochondria, gossip, and gullibility, and you’re all playing into it.

Maybe we are too focussed on past conspiracies such as Freemasonry, Illuminati, and the ‘Protocols’. By constantly blaming ‘big jew’ are we missing the big picture of today’s geopolitics? There are conspiracies at work, but have we successfully identified them?

Maybe we are too focussed on past conspiracies such as Freemasonry, Illuminati, and the ‘Protocols’.

The problem lies in this word ‘conspiracy’ — that is, assuming Freemasonry and the Illuminati were actually political bodies with nefarious goals, rather than hokey, ritualistic gentlemen’s clubs for cultured Europeans of the time with a taste for the arcane, which here & there poked their heads above-ground and so entered the annals of political history (for example during the Paris Commune). This overestimation has a Christian root; the Church always felt threatened by these occult societies and we see, even today, that they still draw censure from the self-appointed evangels and crusaders and vanguards of the right, Christian or otherwise, well after the expiration of whatever influence they may have had in the past or at a given location. Occultism – and that is what Masonry boils down to – is basically without content, but gives itself the air of possessing very great and secret content, and anyone who pushes occultism as having substance is basically a charlatan without any clear ideology; occult societies like the Masons gain in reputation more by the fear, credulity and censure of non-members than by the ideology or deeds of the society itself. Masonry, to my mind, is not much more than an occultist success story, much like Aleister Crowley and Theosophy, doggedly overestimated and inflated by hyperventilating bullies of the right looking in the wrong place for someone to blame for certain evens on the Continent. Even if Masonry were responsible for this and that in Europe two-hundred years ago, it certainly has absolutely no application to America, 2007. Our concern is Jews; let the christers keep squawking about Masonry and Illuminati. But bear in mind that WN’s obsession with “Communism” is just this sort of irrelevant fixed idea, once again a holdover from Rockwellian days. Indeed, I would bet you anything within my power to give that thirty years from now, WN will still be going on about “judeo-bolsheviks” and “cultural marxians”. Even Linder’s hopped aboard that wagon.

By constantly blaming ‘big jew’ are we missing the big picture of today’s geopolitics?

Yes, of course, and congratulations, you’ve just stepped outside, albeit briefly, the WN chalk-circle. Not that Jews aren’t the root cause of the social ills afflicting our everyday lives as white men; there are however qualitative issues with our own “people”, and of course immense quantitative issues well beyond anyone’s control. Bear in mind I am not trying to smudge the outlines of opposite to Jewry or sell crayons, only trying to deepen the picture of society, which after all is not just Jews and a bunch of self-important white nationalists.

There are conspiracies at work, but have we successfully identified them?

And you’re back inside the circle with the assertion: “conspiracies are at work”. Mind, I am not saying there are no conspiracies at all, rather pointing out that reliance on the concept “conspiracies” in discussing the present and future we face misses very much that is not reducible to “conspiracy”, or anyway not in the intentional sense. It is always necessary to differentiate between neutral and intentional conspiracy: events can conspire without any intention; a group of men conspire to affect something. In any case, it is safe to say that harping on Illuminati is past useless, and now just mind-numbingly farcical. It is safe to say that Jews are the authors of grave social ills which will kill us; but this does not exhaust analysis of civilisational morphology. Conspiracies are everywhere, neutral and intentional, specific and general, but holding up these two traditional conspiratorial bogeys (Masonry, Illuminati) is crude, false, useless, irrelevant, pathological, and in bad taste. This is what Ghostwriter’s flippant, indefensible – or at least hitherto undefended – allegation that Weishaupt was a Jew, indeed the mention of Weishaupt period, comes down to. Hoosier’s just your standard bully type who can’t stand seeing the voice of authority questioned.