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Debating Ryerson
by Dov F.
8 November 2004
[Ed.: What follows is an online debate likely to disappear from the 'Net, and so herein preserved for all posterity. Ryerson is a college in Canada.]
[Letter to VNN]
Subject: The Eyeopener Online - Some more comments
I wrote you two weeks ago about some comments I posted to the online version of the student newspaper of this Canadian university called Ryerson. 'The Eyeopener' is its name and apparently some new death threats were issued against the arab and muslim professors teaching there.
So I posted some more comments this week using some of the same goofy made-up Jewish names I used two weeks ago. Thought you might find them amusing to read.
I posted under the names Dov Fecalman, Stan Shittleman, Saul Pornoman and even George Washington. The made-up Jewish names are a perfect tribute to the phoniness of the -itzimites.
Do you accept non-solicited commentaries for posting on VNN if the writing is of suitable quality? I would like to write commentaries for VNN. I would write under the pen name Wandering Gentile. My writing, while not great, shows some originality and on occasion even some briiliance. At a minimum it shows I have a grasp of the essentials. They are not models of composition, that's for sure. But I could work on that. It's originality that I can offer. Like the names I came up with.
[Ed.: Yes, we do accept submissions, and gladly. Send them in the body of the email, not as attachments.]
My last post under George Washington I think shows I understand the influence of the media on our world and how the self-chosen use the media to control the world around us. I strive not only for originality of thought but clarity of expression in my writing, but it needs work. My grammar and proofreading skills definitely need improvement.
I've attached a copy of the page again, just in case it has been removed by the time you visit it. For some reason, not all the graphic elements save as part of the page, so this time I just sent a copy of the page as part of the email instead of as an attachment. I don't know why. One things for sure, thought-control is alive and well on the campus of Ryerson University.
But as of 7 a.m. on Monday, November 8th, the page was still up. Here's the link.
http://www.theeyeopener.com/comment.cfm?storyid=1341
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Ryerson's Independent Newspaper . Volume 38 . Issue 7
http://www.theeyeopener.com/comment.cfm?storyid=1341
Should RyeSAC scrap plans for CFS defederation referendum
Yes
No
View Poll Results
Previous Poll Results
Comments: Death threats alarm campus
George Washington Monday.November.08.2004 @ 12:1A Whites are superior. That's what you don't seem able to comprehend. Whites are, on average, the smartest, most gifted branch of the human race. Whites possess the highest average intelligence of any racial group and possess the best combination of mental and physical traits of any racial group, and these traits are absolutely necessary to sustain modern civilization. We are the decatheletes of mankind, which is why Western culture has reined supreme for the last 300 years, especially in the areas of science and technology. Our political and economic ideas underpin the operation of the modern world.
But today everything whites have created is slowly being torn down in the service of politically-correct ideas that are fascist and totalitarian in nature and driven by a ruthless, tyrannical religious cult that holds itself above all others. That is the truth and if you can't deal with it, then your life really doesn't have much purpose.
The concepts of liberty and freedom of expression are of white european origin. They didn't originate in China. They didn't come from the Indians. And they certainly didn't occur to the chosen ones.
The fact is, the self-chosen ones are slowly strangling Western culture to death. Thanks to them, life today has become all stem growth and no blossom in America. The blossom of creative genius that whites bequeath to the world can't flower here any longer. The self-chosen ones have seen to that.
Under their, everything about life in America has become subordinated to the profit motive. Everything is now interpreted exclusively in terms of dollars and cents.
They have created a new modern version of the Tower of Babel--television. The mass media perpetuates a version of reality on TV that is a counterfeit version of the actual world.
As a consequence, the TV commercialized image of things now dominates our lives today.
Check your history books and read up on the history of Babylon if you dare.
Don't be afraid to know the truth. It won't hurt you.
Carlos Flores Sunday.November.07.2004 @ 11:1P These postings are not only anti-Semitic and blatanly racist, but they are quite a dispicable and pathetic idea of reasoning. Your offensive views are clearly laid on a foundation of racial superiority (white supremacy) and a discussion of biological/natural arguments that demonstrate your lack of understanding about your role in perpetrating these racist and anti-Semitic views. As well, you have taken Orwell out of context with your paranoia and are clearly justifying them as 'freedom of speech'. It is disgusting that being in an University like Ryerson, with its diversity of people, we could have people like yourself articulating such views. I am saddened to hear these disturbed and nauseating diatribes about race. When people are having their lifes threatened on campus you are propagating that hatred yourself.
Carlos Flores
4th year
Eric Blair Sunday.November.07.2004 @ 5:52P Dear racist,
I admit there's no point in arguing with you. You can't reason with a bigot.
I don't think you're transcending anything, just trying to justify your own ignorance. Even child molestors can rationalize their actions, that doesn't make them right.
Anyway, if you think your anti-Semitic views are so great, why don't you share them with your friends and co-workers instead of anonymously posting them here in a cowardly attempt at provocation.
John B Sunday.November.07.2004 @ 4:58P Wow...
I don't know what is worse; the racist or the fact that the Eyeopener hasn't shut down these comments yet.
Funny thing is, when you are on the internet you aren't really anonymous. Whoever is writing this stuff's IP can be traced. The police can easily track you down.
Everyone should be emailing the Eyeopener. To take no stance against racism is to be part of the problem.
George Washington Sunday.November.07.2004 @ 10:26A Wow. The intellectual depth of these last two posts is really quite impressive.
Of course, neither addresses the substance of Dov's comments, just the tone. A clear give-away as to the mindset of the responders.
The scary part is that they represent the current intellectual climate on the Ryerson campus. Brain Dead.
Yep. Thought control is indeed alive and well at Ryerson.
How pathetic. Someone tries to engage in a level of debate that transcends the nonsense and sincere if misguided thinking of the other posters and who shows up--the thought-control police.
Boy, I can just imagine how much intellectual stimulation both of you must bring to the discussion of social and political issues on campus.
Why is it fascist totalitarian types always react like petulant little children to anyone who reasons objectively from the facts? Could it be you are self-chosen ones? Yep. 99.9% of the time that's the reason.
HEY EYEOPENER Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 8:5P You should probably shut down this comment section, since it's become nothing but a platform for some raging Anti-Semite to sprout his bullshit.
Also, maybe you should have a link to report unacceptable comments so they can be dealt with more quickly.
Eric Blair Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 7:31P Dear Mr. Anonymous Anti-Semite:
Yeah, you're a real fucking genius. Evil Jews control the world, eh? What a profound fucking theory you've got there. No wonder lesser beings can't grasp it, what with their puny little 2 digit IQs and all. Maybe they haven't adjusted their tin foil hats correctly, and the Jewish mind control rays are getting to them. Anyway here's a deep thought for you: go fuck yourself.
Stan Shittleman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 4:42P
Wow. What the f?ck. You really are a deep thinker. Is this the extent of what you can contribute to a discussion such as this. You Canadians are farther gone than I realized. Come on. Isn't there somebody going to Ryerson that has even the slightest understanding of the larger issues? No. I guess not.
Thought-control has been in place for so long no one even recognizes it for what it is. Like I said, for anyone with at least a couple of brain cells left that he or she can still control, read Orwell. Then read him again and again and again until it starts to sink in and then maybe, just maybe, the light will come on as to what is really going on. But don't expect it come easy. It will be like climbing a mental mountain someone pushed you off of many years ago and there is no map to guide you back up the way you fell. But don't be afraid. Every step along the way you will find a clue, a hint as to the route your fall took. Retrace them, those mental footprints, and they will guide you back up the mountain. You will make it if you try. Good luck.
What the F*ck? Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 3:24P Are you folks for real. You are scary!
Dov Fecalman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 12:9P I agree with you Stan. Don't let these mental midgets get you down. They are too young to even know what they are talking about. Life is a struggle. There are no utopias. When groups come into conflict over land and resources the only form of resolution is war. Right now we control the disputed lands of Israel. But we must be vigilant. We are greatly outnumbered. Luckily those stupid Americans, particularly their president, are easy to manipulate and control. We have succeeded in completely destroying the Anglo-European culture built up over the last 200 years. We rule through the media and we determine who gains power and who bites the dust.
How stupid can the gentiles possibly be? Well, we'll have to keep researching that question during Bush's second term. Canada we own completely. There are still a few gentiles in America who think they can stop us from gaining control of the world. But we will squash them too. Then we will be in charge of everything. Everything.
Stan Shittleman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:54A What are so afraid of? The truth will set you free. Is it freedom that you fear or knowledge of the truth?
Poor baby. Doesn't know what think without someone first telling him what the list of approved thoughts are. Read Orwell if you have the guts.
Now Go find a hole and bury yourself in it and leave the heavy lifting to people with triple-digit IQs.
Real human beings aren't afraid of the truth and you obviously are afraid of everything you don't or can't understand.
Youre Fullofshitman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:52A Are you affiliated with white power groups?
Stan Shittleman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:44A Let's everybody calm down. I can see some people don't like others to express their opinions freely. So much for freedom of speech. Oh, I forgot. This is Canada. Freedom of speech is not allowed unless its first approved by the chosen ones.
I'm sorry. I'll stop posting. Honesty about the facts offends certain people.
You're right. Banish anyone from this comments page who refused to tailor his opinions to fit the fantasy and not the facts.
That's strange. I thought higher education was supposed to be about distinguishing fact from fantasy for the purpose of gaining enlightenment. I guess that's not the case at Ryerson.
Let's see. How many more countries till we have stamped out freedom of expression everywhere. Just a few. We are almost there.
Dudley Doright Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:42A Dudes! Dudes! Dudes!
Shmuel Butman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:41A What's shite?
are you... Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:35A trying to say that we all buy into notions of superiority? We all do it because it is the right thing? Are you? WTF?
Are you in the KKK? Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 11:34A Dudes, you all talking shite!
racism is wrong! Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 10:40A To say it is not is to deny it and its importance. The anti-Semitic ring to the creation of knowledge on campus that you spew is quite concerning, whether or not the academy is dominate by Jewry. To narrow down racism to instinctual response and biologically determined reality is racist in and of itself. Race is a construct, and racism is a further expansion of that construct based on power. This analysis is critical and to dumb down the definition and complex reality of race and racism is a disservice to the community.
Your racist propaganda ought to be removed from this site.
Saul Pornoman Saturday.November.06.2004 @ 9:13A Racism is not wrong. Racism is the name given to the actions of all distinct ethnic groups that seek to protect themselves from the displacement by other groups. Racism is the name that describes what peoples do in response to threats, whether real or imagined, to their existence.
Most of the goofball postings on this page reflect the immature and ignorant understanding of the world that is typical of college students before they left the educational 'nest' and discovered on their own the truth about how the real world actually works.
The Jewish dominated, factually-challenged world of higher education, both in America and Canada, generates the kind of confused thinking seen in the majority of the postings here. All of you mean well, but none of you really have a clue as to the actual forces shaping the world around you.
The factors that produce racism are instinctually-based and biologically-determined. Just ask any Jew about this and see what kind of answer you get. Then, if you have some inkling of the truth, you will know and understand the true source of your confusion on this question.
The real question is, do you have the guts to find out.
Do you?
ANTI-ISLAMAPHOBIA campaign (more than that) ha_redeye@hotmail.com Friday.October.22.2004 @ 12:39A More than that, we need to address the content of these hateful messages, namely that Muslims do not belong in Canadian society.
I feel it is important to point out Muslims have been in the Americas for hundreds of years and precede Columbus. Violent persecution of our faith and adherents is nothing new here, from some Native groups, to African-American slaves, and later immigrants.
Perhaps if we emphasize this history we can create a better context and understanding to prevent these actions from reoccurring. If anyone in Ryesac is interested in this type of content for a forum please do let me know. I have spoken to some MSA members and they appear interested.
Please email me at: ha_redeye@hotmail.com
Jen G Thursday.October.21.2004 @ 11:36A Last point;
And how is the first world white? The most powerful nation in the world will be made up of mostly minorities within the next generation.
Clearly, right now, it is predominantly white. Clearly there is inequality and deplorable repression in the first world caused by white people.
My argument is solely that all 'races' are human and all humans are capable of great evil and great good regardless of the colour of their skin.
Jen G Thursday.October.21.2004 @ 10:9A Colonialism ended a hundred years ago in most places. Less than fifty years ago in others. Since then, first world nations have pumped billions of dollars into those regions to help them develop modern infrastructure and overcome famine. Does that aid money help or hinder? Now that's an interesting debate that I won't go into right now.
The real problem in many violent areas is that dictatorships (run by people of all colours) oppress and repress the local population. In Africa, they take aid money and push it into military spending. Some destabalize areas to make war profits. Anyone who wants to make a buck has their hand in this, white, black, whatever.
The fact that only white people are capable of racism is in itself a racist comment.
If you follow the sociological perspective that race is an imaginary, socially-constructed concept, then it logically follows that all humans regardless of race justify violence and repression of local and large populations on ethnocentric grounds. (Take a look at Bosnia, of Iraq, of Israel, of most of Africa which remains mired in civil war, Japan and China)
This is because all modern nations are formed on the same nationalistic and ethnocentric foundation.
'Tis my opinion. And not one that I care to argue with someone who can only debate by throwing course codes.
Hey Jen G Thursday.October.21.2004 @ 10:4A yes it would be beneficial for everyone is society to take ANTI-OPPRESSION TRAINING - it should be part of our curriculum, i gurantee our society would be a lot better!
and Discrimination @ RyeSAC and Ryerson will cease to exist!
Hey Jen G Thursday.October.21.2004 @ 9:54A the examples you gave of Rwanda and Sudan - can be linked and connected to COLONIALISM.
A great course to take is POL540 - third world politics or human rights and equity both taught in the politics department.
Most of the problems in our world is connected to COLONIALISM and IMPERIALISM and NEO-COLONIALISM so on...
There still continues to be White Supremacy - where here in the first world, white people control just about everything - from government, to public institutions, to businesses - and get third-world sweatshop produced products, aka SLAVERY still exists!
Jen G Thursday.October.21.2004 @ 9:36A It's called critical thinking skills my friend.
I'm quite aware of the fact that white people are considered to be the ones in power and therefore, we're the ones responsible for all racial societal ills. This is classic Marxist theory - Only the people in power are *really* considered capable of *true* racism.
But anyone who can look around them for five minutes can see that white people are not the only ones perpetuating racism.
Because we live in nationalistic societies, all races are taught, to some degree, to be ethnocentric. White, Arab, Asian, Black Jewish etc. (If you can even define those socially-constructed "races", and to be honest, you can't).
You want to see non-white racism in action, look at Rwanda, look at Sudan, look at the entire god-damn Middle East. All ethnocentrically-motivated violence. (Yes, yes, there are political factors at work there too, I know. Just as there are political factors at work behind 'white' racism).
So wouldn't it be beneficial for us all to take anti-oppression training?
Hey Jen Thursday.October.21.2004 @ 2:18A have you ever taken anti-oppression training...
maybe you should, then you can understand what Joe Schmoe is talking about.
Or better yet, go and speak to the SOCIAL WORK DEPARTMENT and do an article about it :)
Jen G Wednesday.October.20.2004 @ 9:27P Are no other racial groups racist?
a flawed plan Tuesday.October.19.2004 @ 11:18P And how would you determine if someone is white? Do you consider Jewish people to be white? How about Arabs or Iranians? Or what if I'm only half white? Could I leave half way through your racism class? I think your plan is racist.
Anyway, I'm just glad the alleged bigot isn't a Ryerson student.
Joe Schmoe Tuesday.October.19.2004 @ 8:58P I think white folk should take anti-racism classes.
not impressed Monday.October.18.2004 @ 11:13A Campaigns against Islamophobia and bigotry in general are good, but I doubt they'll ever solve the problem.
I'm sure that the vast majority of Ryerson students are tolerant of each other, but all it takes is a handful of bigots among the thousands to cause problems.
I think the only real solution is to catch the students responsible, kick them out of school and charge them with issuing death threats.
Here is another Question Monday.October.18.2004 @ 12:22A Why didn't RyeSAC intiate an Anti-Islamaphobia campaign?
and why start another one, a campaign is already underway with the Canadian Federation of Students that represents over 450,000 students coast to coast to coast! and brings together over 70 Student Unions! I think RyeSAC should take a bigger role, and put those executives should put there petty differences a side and unite students to ELIMINATE DISCRIMINATION @ Ryerson and @ RyeSAC!
Having multicultural pow-wows where different cultural groups is great, and having food from different cultures is also great, and making a great big flag is great as well! but it really doesn't get to the root of discrimination. The campaign must go further then a poster and button campaign!
Perhaps, RyeSAC should encourage all students to take ANTI-OPPRESSION TRAINING, or RyeSAC should organize one for students, or encourage the University to make it part of the curriculum!
Here is a Question Monday.October.18.2004 @ 12:1A Why dont the MSA and ASA do a ANTI-ISLAMAPHOBIA campaign with RyeSac, or have it included in the other campaign. RyeSac will definitely come on board.
NO Actually Your WRONG Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 11:34P yeah, RyeSAC and Hillel forgot to mention ISLAMAPHOBIA! Why is it so often forgotten?
Especially, after 9/11 - the most targetted group are people of the Islamic Faith or people who are from the middle east or look middle eastern. The most powerful countries in the world are also targetting them ie. USA, Britain etc.
It was the CFS who took the Intiative and stated fully, that ISLAMAPHOBIA, ANTI-SEMITISM and RACISM is WRONG!
I commend the CFS for their steadfastness! and I criticize those on the RyeSAC executive who refuse to wear the CFS buttons because they are produced by the CFS, and I criticize them for not acknowledging the important work the CFS does.
Instead of defederating and wasting students' money, which by all estimates can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars for a useless referendum - that money should be better used to FIGHT DISCRIMINATION around the Ryerson Community, and within RyeSAC!
Actually Your Wrong Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 11:29P That campaign was started by Hillel@Ryerson in cooperation with RyeSac last year after the anti-semetic incidents both at Ryerson and in other parts of Toronto. Im not sure if CFS took it and ran with it from then.
not impressed Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 8:47P That's an interesting point, but I'm pretty sure you can be against Islamophobia without being part of the CFS, or wearing one of their buttons.
CFS Buttons Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 6:41P The green buttons that the CFS produced - well 3 executives didn't wear them because it was made by the CFS...thats what I'm getting at, it wasn't RyeSAC's intiative but the CFS. The CFS does great things, and its sad that Dave MacLean is imposing the defederation vote on us, and this vote has cost other universities over $300,000 - yeah thats right 300 thousand dollars for the referendum
Huh? What? Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 6:3P so you're saying Ryesac shouldn't have used the CFS campaign when it was available to them and made their own campaign?
It was the CFS Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 5:59P that made that campaign...against ISLAMAPHOBIA - not RyeSAC, but the CFS
Not Impressed Either Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 9:6A It's more than insulting. The comparison diminishes the painb suffered by the Muslim and Arab students as a result of these death threats.
And accusing ryesac of doing nothing to educate against racism is wrong, wrong, wrong.
They made posters & buttons about anti-semitism last year (in response to the terrible acts that were going on on campus and throughout Toronto) and took it further this year with a new campaign that highlighted Islamophobia. They also had organized all the religious groups for a special day during orientation where the clubs made a huge flag with messages of brotherhood, tolerance and peace. I don't call that nothing.
not impressed Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 12:50A A death threat is more than a simple act of discrimination. It's a hate crime, an attack on the right of Ryerson's Muslim community to feel safe on their own campus.
Maybe RyeSAC were wrong to blacklist those left-wing students, but to compare it to this hate crime is insulting.
response to not impressed Sunday.October.17.2004 @ 12:45A not impressed I do agree with you RSWDABTPI were totally out of line. However, I can understand what RSWDABTPI is kinda saying, because DISCRIMINATION in whatever form is wrong! their is no heiarchy of discrimination.
not impressed Saturday.October.16.2004 @ 11:54P Yeah, RSWDABTPI, that's totally an apt and fair comparison. Not hiring two students is exactly the same as threatening Muslims with death.
I mean fuck, I understand you people don't like Dave MacLean, but what hell is wrong with you? Don't you have any shame? Is there nothing you won't exploit to take a cheap shot at RyeSAC?
Some bigoted morons are going around campus threatening students and the first thing that pops into your head is to try to score some political points? You seem to be so consumed with hate for Dave that you'd throw gas on this fire and risk turning our campus into another Concordia if you thought it would hurt him.
Whatever petty political difference we may have, students should be united in condemning these cowardly threats and whatever idiots wrote them.
RyeSAC won't do Anything, because they practice it Saturday.October.16.2004 @ 8:12P "We're being alienated by our own student union," said Sivapalan. "With the whole thing about death threats and racist graffiti this year, RyeSAC shouldn't be alienating anyone. It's complete irony."
- relating to this story, its not like RyeSAC is willing to do anything about discrimination on campus, because they already discriminate against students for employment.
So Sad Saturday.October.16.2004 @ 10:19A This sort of act is truly despicable.
AHMED KHAN Saturday.October.16.2004 @ 6:48A JUST WANT TO REMIND THOSE WHO COMMIT THESE TYPES OF CRIMES IN THE COMMUNITY, IF THEY HAVE HEARD PHRASES SUCH AS " TIT FOR TAT"
"WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND"
IF THIS TYPE OF DEPICTION OF HATE CONTINUES THEN THEY ARE ASKING FOR IT BEFORE THE SITUATION COULD EASILY BE REVERSED AS THERE ARE ZEALOTS ON BOTH SIDES, RIGHT?
PERHAPS THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THESE LOW LIVES WANT, TO CREATE A CRAP IN THE COMMUNITY?
yooo ooo Saturday.October.16.2004 @ 2:19A holy crap.
Commenting has been disabled
DOV F.
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